00:00:00Speaker 1: Or focused documentation. Thank you. Bye. So, yeah, let's start. I mean, you can have your camera on. You can have it off. It's up to you. And we'll start with a quick. Quick, very, very, very general questions like tell us a bit about yourself. Like, Who are you? What's your age? Start with that.

00:00:24Speaker 2: Sure. So I'm Jeff. I'm Canadian, 38 years old, got into crypto in 2017 and thought it was really useful to have these sort of new tools for, I think. Bending the boundaries. You know, tokens are an interesting sort of new tool that that they're they're not money, they're not votes. They're kind of both. But and across multiple different spectrums, I feel like there are new tools to turn binaries into sort of a range of, of, of tools and particularly for the proposal inverter. I'm, I'm really interested in lower barrier tools for streamlined payments. I feel like there's a lot of emergent collaborations that spin up, but having to create a Dao and a Multisig and a this and a that for every single emergent collaboration is a lot of overhead, especially when participating in multiple at a time. So my primary interest was in as a facilitator of these sometimes emergent projects, having a tool that could easily be set up such that funds can flow in the top of the funnel and then flow out the bottom of the funnel and sort of the pre-negotiated funder collaborations and how contractors will split those incoming funds was was struck me as a really useful primitive for sort of enabling more of these emergent bottom up collaborations that seem to happen around the web3 space. Sorry if I went ahead on the questions.

00:02:02Speaker 1: No worries. No, no, no, no, no. There's no particular structure. You mentioned that that your work that you're working with in Web3. Tell us about what you're working on currently with a web tree and. Yeah.

00:02:19Speaker 2: So I worked with with a number of projects, primarily BLOCK Science, which is an engineering R&D firm. I also collaborate with Pad CAD, the open source modeling and simulation tool, as well as BLOCK Science Labs, which is a new platform for sort of hosting ten CAD models in the cloud rather than on local infrastructure. I've also collaborated heavily with the common stack, who is building sort of Dow toolkits like conviction voting, the augmented bonding curve as an instance of a primary issuance market. So yeah, sort of a lot of a lot of doubt tools, Dow collaboration tools and various projects.

00:03:07Speaker 1: Cool. And tell us, who who are you working with when it comes to these projects?

00:03:15Speaker 2: One of the my primary collaborators is Dr. Michael Targum. I'm his handler. He calls me so, you know, and he's got a lot of different projects going on. And I just basically help to move things into the right, right place, which often involves collaborations with a number of different open source projects around different tools or different research collaborations. So I find that I'm often doing this kind of facilitation. And yeah, as I mentioned earlier, the proposal inverter would be a really helpful tool for streamlining sort of the the way to reward contributors among a range of different sort of it's the in-between collaborations that are really difficult. If you work within a firm, you have the boundaries of that firm to sort of streamline your task. You don't have to worry about who gets paid what like you do in a Dao. Everyone's kind of voting on everyone else's salary, which is a lot of overhead in a firm. You have these the boundaries of the firm. You know, there's an HR department that handles a lot of things that allows people to just work. So I feel like some of these tools are sort of disintermediated HR or creating new sort of h.r processes in a decentralized environment so that we don't all have to, we don't have to spend so much time thinking about operational tasks. The funds just flow and we can actually get down to the deeper work. Some of my other collaborators, I mean Jessica Sattler. I work quite closely with her. A number of senior engineers in the block. Science team Danilo, Bernardo, inordinately Matt, Marlon, Jamsheed, Cherish. And then of course, in the web three space. Griff Green. The token engineering commons is a is a really fantastic collaboration as well. Lots of people I work with over there, Curved Labs to Pat Jam, a lot of collaborations there as well. So yeah, I'd say those are a lot of the people that I'm working with on a regular basis.

00:05:19Speaker 1: And how do you organize yourself with them when you collaborate with them? Do you work under an entity or do you just work on like just jam or collaborate together on certain projects? Kind of a more informal or formal?

00:05:36Speaker 2: I would say some of them are formal. Like if there's a client project, there's a few client projects where like Bloc Science and Curve Labs are working together. So some of those are within the organization, others are sort of that interstitial, the liminal area between two organizations. There's, there's kind of this space. And I feel like a lot of the value that is that goes unrewarded in the web3 space is that people who bridge those organizations and I think that's one of the trickiest parts is currently my funding comes from one of those organizations and they understand that I'm working in the liminal space between that organization and other organizations, but that not every group is as acknowledging of the importance of that bridge. You know, if the value isn't being delivered within the firm, then you're wasting time. So I feel like tools like this can really help to bridge the people in between. The people that are working in you have one foot in this or one foot in this or I mean, if you get paid full time by one of them, fantastic. But a lot of the time those people get kind of free written like the value is is not from this firm or from this firm. It's kind of from both. And thus neither firm invests and therefore the people who work in between these orgs don't really get the the value that they that they should, I think. So it's tools like this that I think we can start to flow those funds to the bridge builders as well.

00:07:06Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting point. And how do you identify yourself like within Web3 space if by looking at your, you know, your experiences within the space, if somebody asks you like. What do you do, Jeff, with inventory? What do you say?

00:07:26Speaker 2: Um. What do I say? I guess I. I think there's a really big forthcoming emphasis on computer aided decision making in DAOS. So whether that's design decision making, like in using CAD CAD to to model a system before it's live or also running it sort of as a digital twins. So you can have your live system running and your simulation or your model running beside it and feeding in live data, improving your model as you go and running sort of like an operational digital twin. I think that's sort of the bigger goal. What what I think is really important and necessary in the in the ecosystem, bridging that to the real world. I think we need more like evidence based policy when we're making decisions as governments or whatnot. We should be looking at projections of how will this policy impact the amount of carbon in the atmosphere pool. Let's do the thing that creates the least of that, and I think we need more sort of evidence based or data driven decision making. So ultimately that's, I think, how that kind of bridges to the real world. But I think there's a lot of steps before we get from here to there. So a lot of my research kind of focuses around a few primitives. One of those being conviction voting, which is sort of a real time voting. You know, we don't have to vote once every four years. Of course, if your technology is a piece of paper and a pencil and you're tallying up those things, you can only do it once every so often because you're overhead is so high. But with tokens as a new substrate of design, we can have preference signaling continuously, and then we can look at society as sort of a signal processing system and having inputs from the citizens only once every four years. I mean, are Nintendo's have better throughput than that, right? We can now with tokens have continual signal processing and surfacing sort of the needs of the people on the ground so that governments or daos or meta daos or meta meta daos or whatever these things are in the long run can sort of respond to the signals that are coming rather than trying to prescribe top down. This is where your tax money should go. It's where should your tax money go. It would be really interesting to see these tools kind of flip some of our traditional governance, government governance on its head. So yeah, I guess that's a not a succinct answer, but that's where a lot of my interests and and work in Web3 is very interesting.

00:10:07Speaker 1: Very interesting. And if I would have to cut it down, like if you have two groups, you know, you have in the web3, you have people that are maybe funding projects and you have people that are contributing. Where would you identify the most with right now in The Current? Experience with inventory.

00:10:30Speaker 2: I would say I'm firm. I contribute much more labor than I do capital. And that's I mean, most of my time is spent researching. You know, if I spent more time trading, I'd probably have several more zeros to my to my net worth by now. Unfortunately, I spend a lot of my time like in the in the rabbit hole of research rather than on the trading side. But I also think this is it's a it is very much a self funded movement. You know, all of the money that I feel like sloshed into Bitcoin or entered Bitcoin kind of sloshed over into Ethereum and it keeps sloshing over into a lot of these new different projects. And I think that creates really interesting like positive sum possibilities because then we're talking about rather than mono crop currency, we're talking about like poly polycentric permaculture permaculture economics where you have multiple different currencies and sort of like mesh networks of different value. And those can of course go up and down. But I feel like that's a much more resilient system to shocks than this one monolithic currency and the the boom and bust cycles that we see in traditional economics. So I think it's very much a self funded and I mean. You know, not to put money on a pedestal, but ultimately, when you're when you're building these systems, they need to be funded if we can fund them ourselves. I think this is ultimately where the the greatest subsidiarity comes in as well. It's not relying on funding from outside. It's it's sort of endogenous to the system itself.

00:12:11Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Sorry. A little bit more like this is going to zoom out a bit. If you when you're like working in Web3, where are the locations that you work and what are the devices you use? This is more about understanding what your physical workspace is and what your device, the devices are that you interact with on a daily basis to, you know, to to contribute within the web3 space.

00:12:44Speaker 2: Physical tools are like software tools.

00:12:48Speaker 1: Physical meaning, physical to, you know, devices as a phone, laptop, TV, screen, I don't know.

00:12:58Speaker 2: Smartphone, I've got a laptop, dual screen laptop and then a second monitor. I do a lot of my note taking on the remarkable. So it's nice, sort of like digital, physical analog. I find it's difficult for me to work entirely digitally because everything's kind of piled on top of each other. And when I was in university, you know, I spread out. I put my textbook over there, I put my notes over there. I had my computer over here, you know, and it was you could spread things out. And, you know, imagine trying to study if everything was stacked one on top of the other. And that's kind of how it is in Windows as well, or any flat screen. It's like everything's piled on top of each of itself and it's actually really difficult to work that way. So I find I do a lot of like physical note taking and merged over to the remarkable to kind of bridge that physical and digital because ultimately the downside of putting things on paper is it's only useful for me. I actually really miss the days of like at company office. It's great working from home, but I think co-locating in a shared space is, is really important for teams. And I think that's one of the biggest difficulties since since COVID is sort of the isolation of work. Absolutely.

00:14:17Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Actually, that's interesting. I also tried to do that. What you mentioned about that layering stuff. It's definitely an issue here as well as I am currently on one screen. So we're going to move a bit to the project related questions and also funding related questions of the work that you did in WEB3. So. What? Maybe you mentioned this already, but I'll just repeat the question. Like what drives you to contribute in web3?

00:14:54Speaker 2: I think it's the leverage. The leverage possible. I think this is one of the areas that the work that is done can provide really important tooling for really big problems. You know, we're not just addressing individual problems, we're addressing whole classes of problems. And I think that's what's really exciting for me is that both the global scale, these tools can be used anywhere, but they can also be used at different sort of fractal layers as well. You know, the proposal inverter between two friends splitting a meal or something, or between sub dows or between, you know, métodos. You know, these, these tools are really useful at different layers. So I think that's one of my biggest interests in this space is the amount of leverage we can produce by creating the right primitives.

00:15:46Speaker 1: Cool. And when it comes to the projects that you do in Web3, how do you gather the funding for the work that you do?

00:15:57Speaker 2: That's generally the trickiest part, I would say, especially when you're building public goods that aren't geared towards one organization, but trying to get five organizations to come together and fund a generalized version of a tool that isn't within the boundary of the firm. Again, know it's easy for a firm to invest in something that delivers value to that firm. It's much more difficult for that firm to invest in something that brings value to a bunch of groups, but not particularly any one. So I feel like the funding has been sort of a continual. Pain point in you know you're basically trying to match make here is a tool it's useful to multiple groups and each group is willing to it's kind of its own free rider problem where each group is willing to fund if they get X utility out of it. But of course you're generalizing the tools, so you can't necessarily guarantee that it's going to be for particularly for any one group. So how do these usually come together? I think. On block science side, we have clients who are often coming in. They're interested in some of the research going on, but they also want to kind of include a larger community. So I'll see situations where it's like block sciences, the SME, the subject matter expert. There's a group that is interested in the output. They're generally the funder. And then there's like the community or the sort of the garden that the initiative grows in. And I feel like that has happened several times with the token engineering community. BLOCK Science and Bitcoin, for example, or rye or hydra. This is one of the ways I've seen some of the. Open research in terms of like education as a, as a public good token engineering education, having the sort of the convergence of a number of groups around an interesting, primitive and dark, Dergham explained. At one time, he was like, you know, imagine, like, you know, a piece of food or something. Some resources gets dropped on the ground. What happens? Like, you know, it might be mold or it might be mycelium comes in like uses the resources, turns into a thing and then goes away. So it's almost this like emergent. There's a primitive, there's a challenge. Or start with the client. The client has a challenge. They need solved. They have resources available to make some kind of emergent project around it. That project comes up, it produces a deliverable, and then it kind of disperses. So it's, you know, it's sort of a an emergent and temporal collaboration between a bunch of groups that comes together, it gets funded, it produces something, and then it goes away. So I think the more we can foster that kind of emergent relationship around the production of useful deliverables in terms of these primitives, I think the better.